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Freecycle members told not to trade weapons
11:41am Monday 17th September 2007
Comments (42)The founder of a Croydon website where people can trade unwanted items for free has issued a stark warning to members not to trade weapons online.
Nick Skeet, who set up the Croydon arm of Freecycle, has told members of the group that "firearms and weapons" of any sort are not to be offered or requested.
“If someone does try to trade a weapon, we will be informing the police. I won’t let anything dodgy go on on this site.”
Nick Skeet
A blanket ban on advertising replicas, air powered or pump action weapons and ornamental swords is in place on the site.
A notice on the site says: "I know that some people belong to clubs and want guns for use there. However this is not something we will venture into at Croydon-Freecycle."
Mr Skeet, from Upper Norwood, said he felt it necessary to issue the warning after one member used the site to request an air rifle.
"With everything that's been going on recently, especially around my area with what happened to Evren Anil, I wanted to put a stop to it," he explained, adding: "I don't want Freecycle to end up being a part of something like that - for there to be a newspaper report saying something awful has happened to someone and the perpetrator got that weapon off Freecycle."
Since it's launch in November last year, 2,770 members have signed up to Croydon Freecycle. And while the majority of those online act in good faith, Mr Skeet said some do masquerade as charities or claim they are disabled to get goods for free.
He described the problem as the "sad side" to Freecycle but added that with five moderators now on board, the site is cracking down on rogue users and inappropriate goods.
Mr Skeet said: "The guy who asked for the air rifle, he may have been innocent but I don't see the need for a gun. if you want to shoot things play with computer games or go to an accredited club where they have the weapons safely locked away.
"Years ago you would struggle to find an air rifle never mind buy one but now we've got all these kids who have them and they must be using the internet to source them."
But according to Mr Skeet, if anyone goes on Freecycle to attempt to source a weapon - there will be consequences.
"If someone does try to trade a weapon, we will be informing the police. I won't let anything dodgy go on on this site."
Your Say YourKingston Guardian
Andy, Purley says...
3:24pm Mon 17 Sep 07
will, Southwales says...
3:38pm Mon 17 Sep 07
The fool behind it is the problem.
Do you work for the Scottish parliament by any chance?
What next to try and ban? Breathing because we exhale germs.
john, says...
3:57pm Mon 17 Sep 07
Mr Skeet said some do masquerade as charities or claim they are disabled to get goods for free.
What's he on about.?
The goods are supposed to be free.
Des Hands, West Norwood says...
4:01pm Mon 17 Sep 07
Plinker, somerset says...
4:03pm Mon 17 Sep 07
Long ago & far away, certainly before the interweb and probably before you were even born, people used to be able to buy shotguns and air rifles :eek: from the MAIL ORDER CATALOGUES :eek: Of course, in those days, the relevant laws used to be upheld and enforced - sadly not the case today.
Sharon Harvey, Croydon says...
4:20pm Mon 17 Sep 07
will wrote:Oh dear, The sad thing is that "that fool" may be a child with no comprehension of the outcome of his/hers actions whilst using these swords. Or maybe the "fool" is an adult that uses these weapons on purpose with intent - knowing that this sad country will smack their wrist, then let them walk away. I wonder if you, Will are a "gun club" member who worships Rambo, or sadly a collector of Knives & swords?
Get a life sad one, a sword and rifle will do nothing on it's own. The fool behind it is the problem. Do you work for the Scottish parliament by any chance? What next to try and ban? Breathing because we exhale germs.
Put mums, who have lost their children in charge of the weapons laws & punishments - The crime rate would halve overnight.
will, 542-741 says...
4:31pm Mon 17 Sep 07
Sharon Harvey wrote:I really agree with you about the wrist slapping, we have enough laws in this country as it is, prehaps if the police up held these laws we would not have to listen to this carp
will wrote: Get a life sad one, a sword and rifle will do nothing on it\\\\\\\'s own. The fool behind it is the problem. Do you work for the Scottish parliament by any chance? What next to try and ban? Breathing because we exhale germs.Oh dear, The sad thing is that \\\\\\\"that fool\\\\\\\" may be a child with no comprehension of the outcome of his/hers actions whilst using these swords. Or maybe the \\\\\\\"fool\\\\\\\" is an adult that uses these weapons on purpose with intent - knowing that this sad country will smack their wrist, then let them walk away. I wonder if you, Will are a \\\\\\\"gun club\\\\\\\" member who worships Rambo, or sadly a collector of Knives & swords? Put mums, who have lost their children in charge of the weapons laws & punishments - The crime rate would halve overnight.
Steve, Purley says...
5:01pm Mon 17 Sep 07
mick, DERBYSHIRE says...
7:11pm Mon 17 Sep 07
steven, Leicestershire says...
8:36pm Mon 17 Sep 07
Put mums, who have lost their children in charge of the weapons laws & punishments - The crime rate would halve overnight.
----------------
In a majority of cases, Sharon, if the mums you mention were "in charge" of their own children there would be significantly less crime involving weapons and drugs to solve in the first place!
No right-minded person can lay blame on the object used as a weapon of crime; the blame resides with the person who used the object as a weapon - be it a kitchen knife, garden rock, air rifle or golf club.
Sandy, Dundee says...
9:10pm Mon 17 Sep 07
He says that he sees no use for guns. Tell it to the Olympic committee, Mr Skeet. Lets see if they withdraw the numerous shooting disciplines, just because you say so.
He says that years ago you would struggle to find an air rifle.
ABsolute drivel Mr. Skeet. There were thousands andthousands of air rifles about years ago. I first started airgun target shooting over 30 years ago.
As for kids sourcing airguns online, Mr. Skeet, how are they buying them?
In the main, online sales require the use of a credit card and as these cards are for over 18's ONLY, anyone buying by this method is breaking no Law. Agreed, there may be a VERY few kids who use daddy's card but that will ultimately be cught as daddy gets a monthly bill.
Talk sense Mr. Skeet and stop jumping on the sorry bandwagon that has all gun users as nutcases that shoot everything in sight.
As a last point, there is 10 year irrefutable evidence that bans don't work.
I write, of course, about the moronic media driven legislation introduced after Dunblane in 1997.
Since that blanket ban, gun crime has soared by over 70%, proving conclusively that legaly held firearms do NOT, in any way contribute to gun crime.
Try doing some research, Mr. Skeet before you bump your gums about something you obviously know nothing about.
S.Printer, says...
10:05pm Mon 17 Sep 07
legislation introduced after Dunblane in 1997the 2012 olympics should be interesting , what they going to do use water pistols.?
Portland Jon, Portland, Dorset says...
9:03am Tue 18 Sep 07
Those of us that hunt with air rifles do so legally and with the utmost respect for the countryside and wildlife. Without the hunters the place would be over run with pest species such as rabbits, rats, magpies, squirrels and crows etc. Before you all get on your soap box about nice fluffy squirrels and magpies do you know just how many baby song birds these two species kill each year, millions. The problem in this country is the chavs and gangster wannabe's not us law abiding shooters. Oh yes, I am also a very active Freecycle member here in Dorset.
Darren, Dudley says...
10:17am Tue 18 Sep 07
This is exactly what happened with the handgun ban i.e the government bans hand guns, the legally owned hand guns were handed in. The criminal types source their hand guns from Europe via relaxed boarder controls.
If air guns do get banned then it won't be long before cricket & rounders bats, golf clubs, kitchen utensils are made throw away plastic, house bricks will need to be locked up over night in building sites & old people will be force to crawl on their hands and knees after giving up their walking sticks.
Just remember, the people that commit offences are criminals & criminals don't follow the law .... it's part of their job.
Enforce the current laws, get rid of the criminals & we can all throw away our house & car keys ....
snock, Aylesbury. says...
11:53am Tue 18 Sep 07
An he suggests that we should all take up video games to satisfy our desire to shoot! Well, Mr Skeet , perhaps then you'd suggest we're all too 'violent' because we play violent games!?
Before you spout off about things you nothing of, I suggest you take 5 and think about the bigger picture.
Sal ibn Hari, thornton heath says...
12:13pm Tue 18 Sep 07
Croydon Ramadan Radio: 101.4MHz until 13/10/2007
Charles Shepherd, England says...
12:14pm Tue 18 Sep 07
Rob, Shropshire says...
1:03pm Tue 18 Sep 07
For anyone who disagrees with my opinion, just take a look at the gun-related deaths in this country, once suicides (mainly farmers and vets) are taken out of the figures.
In case you're interested, I'm a law-abiding 52 year old company director, who also shoots vermin (I think it's more humane than poison or traps) and collects air rifles.
Darren, Dudley says...
1:41pm Tue 18 Sep 07
Incidently, for 2007, the police are already up to 65 deaths this year (Q1/Q2) & there's a whole 6 months of reporting to go.
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/uk/7000318.st
m
Sandy, Dundee says...
2:21pm Tue 18 Sep 07
Would that be mothers like Sharon McMilan, whose son, Andrew Morton, seems to be the only case the anti airgun brigade can bring to the fore.
The same Sharon McMilan, convicted drug dealer and convicted drug abuser who now hypocritically seeks the limelight along with publicity hound Tommy Sheridan in order to bring in "Andrews" law?
Given that Mark Bonini, the ONLY person EVER to have been convicted of murder using an airgun, was out of his head on drugs at the time, it's a shame she isn't shouting her lungs off, in an attempt to get drugs out of the system. Or perhaps, that is too close to home for her.
Perhaps,if mothers AND fathers did their job right, instead of bleating about their little angels, there would be a **** sight less juvenile crime about.
Nev, UKAHFT, Cheshire says...
10:10pm Tue 18 Sep 07
More misinformed claptrap - try doing some research before making comments on something you know nothing about.
Robert, Glasgow says...
10:40pm Tue 18 Sep 07
I don't see the need for a gun. if you want to shoot things play with computer games
Many Doctors and Scientists agree that 'shoot em up' video games desensitise the player to actual violence, and can lead to later violent behaviour, especially in children.
Those engaged in shooting sports when properly instructed, learn to shoot responsibly and safely, and are taught to respect other people and their property.
Nick Skeet, Croydon says...
2:01pm Thu 20 Sep 07
nick skeet, Croydon says...
9:34am Fri 21 Sep 07
It is an offence to give an air weapon, or ammunition for it, to a person under 17 years of age.
The Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969 require that certain air weapons can only
be held legally on a firearm certificate.
Freecycle is a family site with no age restrictions, it is impossible for us to check up on our members age, or if they have the relevent licence required if needbe.
If as some state, they are responsible shooters, then you would be responsible enough to underastand why weaponary can not be offered or requested on a website frequented by all ages.
Get a life sad one, a sword and rifle will do nothing on it's own.
The fool behind it is the problem.
Do you work for the Scottish parliament by any chance?
What next to try and ban? Breathing because we exhale germs. Agreed, but Freecycle are not going to be the ones going to arm the fool. As for exhaling germs......yes verbally you do!
nick skeet, Croydon says...
9:48am Fri 21 Sep 07
Mr Skeet said some do masquerade as charities or claim they are disabled to get goods for free.
What's he on about.?
The goods are supposed to be free.
The goods are free, maybe the quote in print is not worded the best, the point was just that some are making out they are charities or non-profit orgs to influence the decision of the person making an offer.
I dont think that mr skeet has the first clue as to what he is talking about when it comes to serious air rifle users,and it is stupid unresearched comments like this that do the responsable airgunners damage.Stupid? I think that addresses you! This article has nothing to do with serious air rifle users....try reading the article, and then research that Freecycle is a family site, not a place for weapons of any type. You call yourself a responsible airgunner, yet with the attitude displayed, that is highly doubtful.
If this debate is to continue, it would be good if it got back on topic & politics left aside. As stated, there is a time & place for air guns, if you still feel there is room to debate, please do so, starting with why you think weapons should be made available to Freecycle members, a family site for ALL ages. I find it doubtful you'll be able to, without showing yourself as being highly irresponsible and a bad advertisement for gun users and their reputation. Give a child a gun, maybe they wont shoot a human, but all to common, the neighbours cat cops a pellet. They soon get bored of shooting tin cans.
Murphy, Wigan says...
9:22am Sun 30 Sep 07
It's ill informed comments like this that I disagree with.
Based on no fact or knowledge from the writer.
"Years ago you would struggle to find an air rifle never mind buy one but now we've got all these kids who have them and they must be using the internet to source them."
Where did you get this info from!!??
Andrew, says...
12:23pm Sun 30 Sep 07
> All age groups, including disabled, get out doors and away from inane screens and keyboards.
> Many participants get involved in the engaging and complex aspects of target shooting, hunting (eating the resulting organic, free ranging, chemical and hormine free game brought home to the table), rifle maintenance and balistics. Have a look on the forums, there is overwhelming evidence of young people who could hardly string a coherent sentence together to start with, becoming much more literate and engaging successfully in mathematics to a level which would astound the school which invariably failed them.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the various aspects of air rifle sport and hunting:
- Field Target
- Hunter Field Target
- Garden Target Shooting
- Hunting
- Pest Control
If, Mr Skeet, you wish to denigrate something then go to a supermarket and stand by the meat counter and denigrate people buying farmed meat (i.e. body parts of animals wich have had a terrible life, been fed chemicals and hormones and antibiotics and all manner of substances not found in their natural diet - and never roamed free and procreated and then taken to an abattoir and stared in horror as their turn came.
Then think about a working class lad out in a field away from the computer screen who brings a wild pigeon back to the table.
I wholeheartedly disagree with your comments and actions Mr Skeet.
Steve H, London says...
1:35pm Sun 30 Sep 07
I am a member of freecycle in my borough and have used to to get rid of a fair bit of spare stuff. If this is the sort of attitude that the people running it have, I will not be using it again. I'd rather my stuff went to landfill that be seen to support these tinpot dictators.
Matthew, North Wales says...
1:49pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Karin Flower wrote:If you took the time to do a little research you'd find that there is indeed legislation to cover this, however, as with most things in life there are people out there who flout the law. Tomorrow (1st Oct) New legislation comes into effect, the VCRA is designed to deal with exactly this sort of situation bit i am fairly certain it will make no difference whatsoever.
Its about time there was some legislation covering this. I was amazed that only 2 weeks ago, at a large Car boot sale in Epsom, I saw a boy (appearing to be around 13 years old) purchase an Ornamental Japanese sword from a stall for the princely sum of £5. There was about 20 of these things, which look like sticks of bamboo, but pull the sheath off & its a long sword. Even a replica is capable of severe damage. Why are these allowed to be sold?
Thermatekid, says...
4:23pm Sun 30 Sep 07
I've shot with air rifles for 45 years. And guess what? I've never shot anyone.
And get your facts right, yer Nazi.
Nick Skeet, Croydon says...
12:55am Mon 1 Oct 07
Murphy wrote:You Live in Wigan,I am sure you will know that Wigan is a different ballgame to London. I dont see what point you are trying to make. Heres a point.....between the 24th & 30th Sept 2007, 3 seperate incidents relating to air guns reported in the national press. A soldier due to go to frontline shot at....doubtful he'll make the frontline now,a young girl nearly blinded....need i go on? feel free to disagree all you like, my stance on weapons is firm and will remain that way,regardless of some that want to try and pick holes in the editing
I have no problem with any rule\'s you see fit to place on your web site Mr Skeet. It\'s ill informed comments like this that I disagree with. Based on no fact or knowledge from the writer.\"Years ago you would struggle to find an air rifle never mind buy one but now we\'ve got all these kids who have them and they must be using the internet to source them.\"Where did you get this info from!!??
Nick Skeet, Croydon says...
1:01am Mon 1 Oct 07
Thermatekid wrote:Thermatekid,if you have shot them for 45 years, this makes you probably 50+ not the maturist of comments, but then you do have kid in your nickname,kind of says it all, knowing that people with a mentality like yours use air guns is a scary thought. You totally mis-read the context,as stated,we dont want weapons allowed on a site frequented by all ages, and you see room for debate there? so sad.....oh and calling me a nazi.......that hurts so much
Typical attitude, today. I don\'t like it, so I don\'t see why anyone else should. I\'ve shot with air rifles for 45 years. And guess what? I\'ve never shot anyone. And get your facts right, yer Nazi.
Nick Skeet, Croydon says...
1:16am Mon 1 Oct 07
Steve H,if you was member of my group, you would not be missed, we are not political,there is nothing political about banning weapons, so what you rattling on about? Our group does as it says on the tin...prevents useable items ending up in landfills and has been a great success! As with many websites,there are rules, rules are not politics!
Then think about a working class lad out in a field away from the computer screen who brings a wild pigeon back to the table.
funny enough,we dont get much of that here in Croydon
I will not be bothering to reply to any further comments from the gun pro's, not worth the wear n tear on my keyboard,as most is totally off topic. Some people really need to get out more.
Rob Morton, Derby says...
1:34am Mon 1 Oct 07
First of all, Mr. Skeet, airguns are not weapons, they're simply 'sporting goods' like cricket bats and golf clubs, both of which are misused as weapons more often than airguns are (UK Home Office statistics). Secondly, it is illegal to make airguns available to people under fourteen years of age, unless they are supervised by someone over twenty-one. In any give year, only 0.2% of airguns are used illegally (UK Home Office stats again), imagine how safe the UK's road would be if only 0.2%of cars were driven illegally! Of the tiny fraction of airguns used illegally, only a small proportion were actually used as weapons. Please keep your bigotted, ill-founded prejudices to yourself in future. Airgun shooters are amongst the most responsible and law-abiding members of the community, not the cat-shooting thugs you would paint us as. If you choose not to allow airguns to be advertised on your site, that is up to you, buit please, in future, keep your prejudices to yourself, and don't spout ill-founded criticisms of people you plainly know absolutely nothing about! You state that Freecycle is 'a family site', well, my nine-year-old daughter is an avid air rifle target shooter, under my supervision, obviously. She is responsible, understands about shooting safety, and has not the slightest interest in shooting the neighbours cats. Why is is it that the media gives bigots like you a platform to spout your prejudiced and ignorant views? Your factually inaccurate and bigotted views do you no good at all, and if you think that banning airguns from Freecycle is going to do anything at all towards ridding our society of violent crime, you are sadly misguided too.
Rob Morton, Derby says...
8:09am Mon 1 Oct 07
Some people, Mr. Skeet, like YOU for instance, really need to do more research and check a few facts before spouting their bigotted prejudices. You ought to consider the people whose sports and pastimes will be denigrated by your ignorant and ill-founded ramblings. Don't bother to reply, just keep sticking your head in the sand and humming to youself, you supercilious and smug person! You are ignorant and prejudiced, and it's despicable that 'the Guardian' gives people like you a platform to spout your ignorant ramblings!
Smokeless Coal, Hastings says...
1:23pm Mon 1 Oct 07
As for the rest of you gun fanatics
They dont use "weapons" as already stated it is sports equipment. Granted they should not be "traded" on your uncontrolled project but a simple well worded request might have had better effect than spouting off your obvious uninformed vehemous rhetoric.
You dont see "a use for airguns" many decent and more enlighted do. Try accepting that you are wrong to attack them on public media.
Freecycle has no way to verify that firearms will end up being used by responsible people for lawfull activities so will not be permited to be advertised, thank you.
Simple, innit.
And Karen Flower, you witnessed an illegal transaction at a boot sale. Did you report it to the authorities? No, then you are also in the wrong.
Chris N, London says...
4:07pm Mon 1 Oct 07
Taking into account Mr Skeet's earlier comments that freecycler exists to reduce landfill and dumping of unwanted items and that his aim, no pun intended, in removing the trade in "weapons" was/is to prevent them falling into the hands of youngsters/criminals etc. there is a bit of a idealogical mismatch.
Reasoning this policy through to it's logical conclusion one can assume that: If there is a supply of air rifles/pistols on the site then it is fair to assume that these items are unwanted and would otherwise end up in skips/bins and therefore landfill. Further if these items are thrown away then they cease to be under the control of the (presumably) sensible law abiding citizens they currently reside with and become items to be discovered in skips, dumps etc etc by anyone.
Alternately if trade in air rifles/pistols were allowed to continue on the site then it would be the legal responsibility of the seller/trader (who, one must assume, has been sensible and law abiding thus far) to ensure they are passing on these items to adults.
The general tendency towards knee jerk reaction and ill informed legislation in this country continually concerns me. There appears to be a constant belief that creating a law will prevent the crime. There has been a 30 mph speed limit in this country for longer than I've been alive but this does not prevent people speeding. It is illegal for under 16s to have sex but yet we have one of the highest under 16 pregnancy rates in Europe. Drugs such as cocaine and heroin are, we all know, illegal but yet there use and supply grows year on year. There is a desperate need for education rather than further restriction and this is the duty of us all.
In short my feeling is that Mr Skeet's actions whilst honorable in their intent are illinformed and potentially counter productive. I would go to say though that I have no strong feeling one way or the other with regards to freecycler, it's policies or Mr Skeet himself and I trust he will accept these comments with the good will they were intended.
Nick Skeet, Croydon says...
11:23pm Mon 1 Oct 07
Nick Skeet, Croydon says...
11:36pm Mon 1 Oct 07
They dont use "weapons" as already stated it is sports equipment. It is sports equipment in the right hands, right place. It is a potentially lethal weapon in the wrong hands.
You dont see "a use for airguns" many decent and more enlighted do. Try accepting that you are wrong to attack them on public media.
If you feel this is aimed at the responsible user,then you are mythed,it is aimed at reducing guns falling into the wrong hands, if you cant see this in the context it is meant,then thats your downfall,not mine.
You are ignorant and prejudicedIf that is the title, yesand happy to be, I have a negative stance on guns and weaponary.....Good..
..now sue me,lecturing me will make no changes. The intial point was I banned weapons from Freecycle....Good,en
d of subject. Your not going to educate me at all, as I have absolutely no interest in all this pro-gun stuff. I done what is right for my specific website and I do not regret it for one minute, all the blah blah blah above makes no difference,why not take your gun advice to dedicated gun forums, where more than a handful will maybe read with interest,it is wasted here, bye bye and happy gunning
Mr Nice, Croydon says...
8:35am Mon 17 Mar 08
twistedsister, says...
2:05pm Fri 23 May 08
... http://www.freecycle
.org/about/staff
Nick Skeet with his website
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Karin Flower, Surrey says...
2:56pm Mon 17 Sep 07