Text your news & pics
Text your news or pictures (plus 'SLNEWS' or 'SLPICS') to 80360. click here for details »
Chair of governors banned from school
9:48am Friday 11th July 2008
Comments (132) Have your say »
By James Pepper »
A primary school has banned the chairman of the governors from its premises after he threatened to expose a series of violent incidents involving its pupils.
In one of the most serious episodes at Dorchester Primary School, a six-year-old boy stabbed a teacher with a pencil. In another, a boy was suspended after physically assaulting a girl.
"I simply want these behaviour issues dealt with for the good of the children and the school."
Chris John
But when chairman of the governors Chris John, 40, tried to raise concerns to the authorities about the children's behaviour he was barred from entering the school in Dorchester Road, Worcester Park, by Sutton Council.
Mr John, who has a daughter at the school, is only allowed in the grounds to pick up his child but has been warned if he enters the buildings the council "may have no option but to take further steps."
The governor of four years claims that there have been disturbing incidents involving five unruly children but feels the incidents are not being investigated sufficiently.
He also claimed that attempts were made to keep a disruptive pupil at home while the school was being officially inspected by Ofsted.
He said: "The school is very concerned about image, very much in line with the London borough of Sutton.
"Fur coat but nothing in the fridge is the way I would sum it up."
Mr John, had been approached by parents and teachers earlier in the year raising their concerns.
He said: "Staff didn't feel like there was any continuity in behaviour management, they felt some teachers were managing it well, but others were not.
"The governing body raised the issue with headteacher Louise Austin who resisted the need for any type of behaviour management policy."
Mr John said the pupil who had stabbed a teacher in the arm with a pencil on May 21 was a classic example of how the school's policies were failing.
He claimed this six-year-old was allowed to routinely wander the school as the staff had effectively given up on him attending classes.
A caretaker once found the youngster in the street outside school ground wearing his socks.
Mr John has met with MP Glenda Jackson who has written to the council to have the ban removed.
The National Governors' Association is also considering a complaint to the Secretary of State.
Mr John is seeking legal advice.
He said "I simply want these behaviour issues dealt with for the good of the children and the school."
A council spokesman said: "Issues have been raised at the school that affect Mr John.
"These issues are being investigated appropriately and until this has concluded, Mr John has been requested not to enter the school buildings."
RATE THIS:
Your sayYourLocal Guardian
Add your comment
Register for a FREE Your Local Guardian account and you can have your say on today's news and sport by adding comments on articles we publish. The best comments may even get published in the paper.
Please register now or sign in below to continue.
Your Say YourLocal Guardian
Clare, Sutton says...
1:51pm Fri 11 Jul 08
An absolute disgrace. Chris John is standing up for what is RIGHT and the other parents of the school should be standing tall beside him otherwise it is like saying that bad behaviour is tolerated in this school. I feel sorry for this man and give him my full support.
Anon, Sutton says...
3:02pm Fri 11 Jul 08
Knowing some of the history of this situation, I think it is disgraceful that someone is able to say what they like, with complete disregard for the facts, and for this to be printed in your paper. Many of the issues in this story are nothing other than pure fiction and I and many others find it laughable. If Mr John has such issues with the school, you have to ask why he sends his own daughter there!
Dr Howard Fredrics, Hampton wick says...
3:57pm Fri 11 Jul 08
At last, a governor who wants to tell the truth about bullying in a school, rather than being part of a cover-up to protect its 'reputation.'
Shame on the Dorchester officials who've chosen to shoot the messenger, instead of taking on the cause of the problems.
Shame on the Dorchester officials who've chosen to shoot the messenger, instead of taking on the cause of the problems.
Chris John, London says...
5:59pm Fri 11 Jul 08
All of the claims I have made are completely true and if any reader wished to see the evidence then contact me via the Guardian. LB Sutton appears to be more concerned about protecting their staff from criticism than dealing with the problems that face all our schools today. As for sending my daughter to the school, she has had a good education there but as a Chair of Governors I was concerned with ALL the children and if I was truly selfish then I would have pulled her out of the school.
Miss T M Young, Croydon says...
7:00pm Fri 11 Jul 08
this does not surprize in the least.
My childrens secondary school regularly underplays events at the school and absolves itself of any responsibilty.
Thankfully my youngest has just finished school.
My childrens secondary school regularly underplays events at the school and absolves itself of any responsibilty.
Thankfully my youngest has just finished school.
Les, Surrey says...
8:53pm Fri 11 Jul 08
Regardless of not knowing the details of this particular case, it's about time that the sheep that inhabit this land wake up to the FACT that the majority or problems that we have in society today originate from incompetent and corrupt government at various levels.
It seems everything about this country just gets worse and worse, we would probably be better off if we could erase the actions of the last thirty years of government.
We need honest and decent people with a realistic view of the world to start straightening out the mess that the self-serving parasites have created.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke (1729-1797).
It seems everything about this country just gets worse and worse, we would probably be better off if we could erase the actions of the last thirty years of government.
We need honest and decent people with a realistic view of the world to start straightening out the mess that the self-serving parasites have created.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke (1729-1797).
Anon, sutton says...
10:03pm Fri 11 Jul 08
As someone who equally knows a great deal about the situation at the school I can wholeheartedly agree with Mr John's comments. He has been brave enough to stand up for what is right. Something the rest of us are too frightened to do!
John, Surrey says...
12:08pm Sat 12 Jul 08
Whatever happened to freedom-of-speech in this Country? If we are to correct the wrongs in this Country, we have to stand-up as parents and be heard. It is our job when we have children.
Jan, Sutton, UK says...
7:54pm Sat 12 Jul 08
I think 'Freedom-Of-Speech' went out when 'Big Brother' moved in!
anon, mitcham says...
9:01am Sun 13 Jul 08
well done Mr John but a lot of schools are like this
Anon, Sutton says...
11:52pm Sun 13 Jul 08
There are two sides to every story and I can't believe there isn't more to this one. I am sure we will learn more at some point soon which will be very enlightening.
sarah hillman-mawer, worcester park says...
1:22am Mon 14 Jul 08
I have a child at Dorchester and am concerned! I do intend to press the head about this matter. Logically 'no smoke without fire'.. All parents have received a letter from the head. It is worrying in what it doesn't say! It says nothing about Mr John on the grounds of confidentiality but the wording is emotive and suggests he is somehow a danger to our children!(totally unacceptable and unprofessional) Perhaps other parents should look at the mass exodus of teachers leaving Dorchester this year and wonder why. I think other parents with children at this school should demand answers and info.There doesn't appear to be a real behaviour policy or bullying policy in place - or at least none on their web site. As a teacher myself, I think this situation should be addressed. School is not a 'business' as some heads think. Nor is it an image- although schools are put under pressure to do this! I for one don't mind if pupils are excluded.. a good school should have clear expectations, guidelines and consequences for poor behaviour and have the guts to follow through. Parents too should support behaviour expectations and not make excuses for their children. Parent - dorchester wp
Anon, Worcester Park says...
6:26am Mon 14 Jul 08
I also have a child at the school and I am not concerned! My child has received a good education at the school. He has certainly not felt at risk of harm from these supposed '5 children'- he doesn't even know who they are meant to be, that just shows how little a problem it is. As for bullying who said their was a bullying issue? With regards to the 'mass exodus' of teachers, there as various reasons for the changes such as a change of career, moving away, promotion
and having a baby! All schools have staff movement just the same as all schools have children with behavioural issues. It is just a shame that Mr Johns has decided to try and 'shame' a great school because of being suspended. Why not ask yourself is this a case of sour grapes?
and having a baby! All schools have staff movement just the same as all schools have children with behavioural issues. It is just a shame that Mr Johns has decided to try and 'shame' a great school because of being suspended. Why not ask yourself is this a case of sour grapes?
Mr Chris John, London says...
9:53am Mon 14 Jul 08
Readers should note that I was suspended from the Governing Body for 'going to the press' and that the suspension only took place because I wouldnt resign as a Governor. The ban is unlawful and just demonstrated the lengths that LB Sutton will go to to preserve image rather than dealing with the real issues that concern all our children within schools.
Anon1, Worcester Park says...
11:05am Mon 14 Jul 08
I have two children in Dorchester, both have been there since Nursery and my eldest leaves next week. I have to say, they have both had a good education there, have both been very happy and have progressed well. There are some problem children there, there are in every school, but maybe this is because they are in a school that doesnt have the facilities to cope with their issues and should be elsewhere. In the main, all the teachers my children have had have been good, the more experienced teachers there are excellent, they do however, have a large number of younger, inexperienced teachers, as for the behaviour there, its one rule for one I'm afraid and I've seen plenty of evidence of this. Some of the children are punished severely (rightly so), others who have mums as classroom assistants get away with much more, so there is definately a consistency problem. However, I do feel that the school is making some progress and that the new Head is doing what she can to turn things around, this is on the whole, a nice school, with supportive staff and a good (and growing) reputation. My children have never been bullied at Dorchester and I'm confident its not something that would be tolerated. I have always found the staff incredibly supportive if my children have ever had any issues. I agree with Mr Johns that the Borough is not helping by their actions, if there are problem kids in the school then they should be making sure they get the support that they require and I'm sorry that he has been treated in this way for standing up for the rights of not only his own child but all of the children at Dorchester.
anon, worcester park says...
11:23am Mon 14 Jul 08
How refreshing it is to see a school's covering up of its real image being 'outed'. I'm sure that the school would also be happy to tell OFSTED of the way in which its SAT tests are conducted with great 'help' to raise the overall test scores of a few of its pupils. Obviously I will be damned and asked for my 'evidence'. This is always hard to come by after the event, but the fact that pupils were asked to keep quiet about the teachers methods and that test papers had already been opened before the time of the test would point to more goings on.
However I do beleive that the pressure to succeed has probably caused all of the above, so the LEA should not look to the school for punishment but perhaps OFSTED's keen inspectors and the overuse of league tables.
However I do beleive that the pressure to succeed has probably caused all of the above, so the LEA should not look to the school for punishment but perhaps OFSTED's keen inspectors and the overuse of league tables.
Anon, Sutton says...
1:27pm Mon 14 Jul 08
My child starts school at Dorchester this coming September and I am now very concerned if I have made the right choice. You always get trouble students at any school but for this school to make front page news really concerns me. I do hope the school makes some sort of comment back
Anon1, Worcester Park says...
1:33pm Mon 14 Jul 08
Anon, Sutton. Dont be concerned, if you read my earlier post my children have been there for years, with only good results. Every school has troublemakers, and I'm sure the issues with cover-ups etc isnt purely isolated to Dorchester, its the Boroughs controlling that are at fault. There are some excellent teachers at Dorchester and I've always found the staff there more than happy to help with issues. Its a small minority causing the behaviour issues but there will always be unruly children everywhere, you just need to ensure you know your childs friends, their parents etc and steer them in the direction of those you would want them to mix with !
Chris John, London says...
3:59pm Mon 14 Jul 08
I must agree; there are indeed some excellent teachers at Dorchester and maybe the Borough/Education Authority is at fault more than anyone. But ultimately you have to ask how well the Children would have progressed had the issues raised by me not happened in the 1st place. I also pose the question; Is image more important that educational achievement?
Anon, WP says...
5:16pm Mon 14 Jul 08
I was amazed to see the article in last weeks Guardian. I believe I am a parent of one of the five 'disruptive' children and therefore have very mixed emotions about the article. Clearly it is difficult to acknowledge that your child has caused problems in the school and I agree that in certain cases exclusions are necessary and I have never as a parent tolerated the behaviour that my child has at times exhibited. However, it is my belief that my childs more extreme behaviour has come about in the last two years. With this has come extreme inconsistencies in behaviour management, some extremely unprofessional comments and conduct toward myself and my child by some teachers and members of senior management. We have also experienced some bazaare and I believe damaging 'techniques' used in attempts to address his behaviour. In dealings with external professional support they have also highlighted Mr Johns concerns and that of my own - that behaviour management is inconsistent and largely ignored - meaning that these children are allowed to drift through school one minute being totally ignored and the next minute excluded! Confused!? I have been!
I strongly believe that my childs behavioural problems have worsened as a result of the way it has been handled. As a parent of course I appear bias - but again I re-iterate that I support behavioural problems being dealt with firmly whilst also encouraging ALL children to feel good about themselves and comfortable in their environment.
I would re-iterate other comments made that my child has also experienced excellent teaching and support from some teachers and teaching assistants in the past and a child that does not have particular behavioural difficulties would probably do well at the school.
I think we can see in society today what happens when we ignore children with these kinds of difficulties and so it benefits us all to open our eyes to these kinds of problems.
I strongly believe that my childs behavioural problems have worsened as a result of the way it has been handled. As a parent of course I appear bias - but again I re-iterate that I support behavioural problems being dealt with firmly whilst also encouraging ALL children to feel good about themselves and comfortable in their environment.
I would re-iterate other comments made that my child has also experienced excellent teaching and support from some teachers and teaching assistants in the past and a child that does not have particular behavioural difficulties would probably do well at the school.
I think we can see in society today what happens when we ignore children with these kinds of difficulties and so it benefits us all to open our eyes to these kinds of problems.
Mrs Lyn Jarvis, Worcester Park says...
7:13pm Mon 14 Jul 08
As a former employee and parent of Dorchester Primary school I feel a sense of obligation to comment. I believe the issue is not with the children, their behaviour or the teaching staff as my child received a very good education during her time there, but with the former governor Mr Chris Johns with the issue and circumstance of his suspension. The come about of this article should be solely between himself an L B Sutton who enforced his suspension. I don't know why he is trying to bring down the good reputation of the school unless there is deeper issues between himself and current employees we do not know about (is this why he has been suspended). In case of legal implications I will reserve my own views and opinions of Mr Chris Johns for I worked in the school at the same time as him.
Anonymous, Worcester Park says...
7:21pm Mon 14 Jul 08
I am one of many hard working, caring Learning Support Assistants at Dorchester Primary School. My son also attends the school and I resent the remark that my child would be allowed to "get away" with much more than any other child. He is treated in exactly the same way as any other child, punished in the same way and is offered no special favours because his Mum works there!! In fact, I would say he has found it very hard at times because I work there, as he has felt that I am keeping a very close eye on his behaviour.
I was also one of the support staff that helped during Sat's week and I would like to re-assure everybody that there was nothing underhand going on at all. I resent the remark that we have almost been accused of cheating. ALL the pupils will have achieved the results they deserve, even those you did need extra support throughout the year and not only during Sat's week and any parent reading this should feel extremely proud of their child's achievements and not left wondering if they were "helped" along the way.
Everyone who works at the school cares about what happens to ALL the children and we work extremely hard everyday to help your children become independent and happy.
Dorchester Primary is an excellent school and I for one am really proud to work there and be part of such a great team.
I was also one of the support staff that helped during Sat's week and I would like to re-assure everybody that there was nothing underhand going on at all. I resent the remark that we have almost been accused of cheating. ALL the pupils will have achieved the results they deserve, even those you did need extra support throughout the year and not only during Sat's week and any parent reading this should feel extremely proud of their child's achievements and not left wondering if they were "helped" along the way.
Everyone who works at the school cares about what happens to ALL the children and we work extremely hard everyday to help your children become independent and happy.
Dorchester Primary is an excellent school and I for one am really proud to work there and be part of such a great team.
Chris John, 979-510 says...
7:27pm Mon 14 Jul 08
The school and other people can throw as many insults as they like against me but it does not get away from the facts. I have been prevented from raising very serious concerns all for the sake of image preservation! I have emails from 'frightened' parents who felt unable to complain for fear of retribution and that is simply not acceptable. A good reputation can only be built on trust, openness and transparency. These terms sadly seem to be lacking at this present time. Hang, draw and quarter me but it still wont solve the problems that I have highlighted at Dorchester.
Anonymous, Worcester Park says...
7:34pm Mon 14 Jul 08
Nobody is trying to hang, draw and quarter you at all. If you read the postings properly then you will see that most of them are directed towards the school and not at you personally. It has got nothing to do with image, we at Dorchester want what is best for ALL the children too. You are not alone in that.
Chris John, London says...
7:49pm Mon 14 Jul 08
I have today offered an olive branch to LB Sutton in order to try and work together to address the issues. I am still waiting for a reply. I cannot go into the details of why 'all this' started but I will say that in my previous capacity as Chair of Governors I had collated an amount of evidence indicating managerial issues in the school. As a result of those issues being presented to management I was then presented with a complaint against me for daring to raise those issues in the correct way even though I had been advised by the LEA. And for purposes of clarity I am still awaiting LB Sutton to confirm the reasons for my ban. Perhaps I'll get 100 lines or a detention :-)
Anonymous, Worcester Park says...
8:05pm Mon 14 Jul 08
You never know your luck!!
ANON, WP says...
8:41pm Mon 14 Jul 08
As an extremely worried parent I am now questioning why in 12 months thirteen teachers and 6 support staff have left the school, many of them being loyal, long standing members of staff. Maybe their views should be sought?
A worried parent
A worried parent
Carol, Worcester Park says...
9:02pm Mon 14 Jul 08
I recall two of the schools deputies leaving recently too.
DOrchester Mum, Worcester Park says...
9:11pm Mon 14 Jul 08
My 2 children go to Dorchester and one of them has needed some extra support at school having found it very difficult to cope with the school environment after some family trauma.
Due to the care and support the school, the teachers and in particular, the clasroom assistants have given, my child has now settled, behaves in line with school rules and is now back to the well balanced, well mannered child they were before.
In all this, I truly believe that the classroom assistants are the unsung heroes. THey are the people who bear the main brunt of the behaviour from children who need some special attention. To go to the newspaper which in my opinion is a very single sided and often misleading forum is unacceptable.
Mr Johns, I understand that you may have some frustrations, but surely this isnt the right way to go about this ?? All you are doing is breeding gossip and making people decide who they think these 5 pupils are. I know from experience that my child came across as a distruptive child when all that was needed was some understanding and some support from the authorities. I worked very hard with the school who were absolutely FANTASTIC. THis is not the way to deal with these issues and I expected more from someone who was privvy to confidential information and has used it against the school and the pupils.
Due to the care and support the school, the teachers and in particular, the clasroom assistants have given, my child has now settled, behaves in line with school rules and is now back to the well balanced, well mannered child they were before.
In all this, I truly believe that the classroom assistants are the unsung heroes. THey are the people who bear the main brunt of the behaviour from children who need some special attention. To go to the newspaper which in my opinion is a very single sided and often misleading forum is unacceptable.
Mr Johns, I understand that you may have some frustrations, but surely this isnt the right way to go about this ?? All you are doing is breeding gossip and making people decide who they think these 5 pupils are. I know from experience that my child came across as a distruptive child when all that was needed was some understanding and some support from the authorities. I worked very hard with the school who were absolutely FANTASTIC. THis is not the way to deal with these issues and I expected more from someone who was privvy to confidential information and has used it against the school and the pupils.
Concerned Parent, Sutton says...
9:46pm Mon 14 Jul 08
I'm a parent of 2 kids at Dorchester and am 100% aware of the circumstances surrounding this fiasco. While Chris has valid concerns these all hapenned before the current head was appointed and the situation has tuned around completely. It's sad when a parent (especially a Governor) has a grudge and aclash of personality and blows it completely out of proportion just for spite. Doesnt he realise its the kids he's hurting most?
anonymous, says...
10:02pm Mon 14 Jul 08
I am another concerned parent of 2 children Dorchester but am of the opinion that the current behavioural issues began around the time the current head was appointed. My son who is now in Year 12 attended Dorchester and had an excellent education there andnever came home telling the stories that my youngest two do. There are still strong teachers there from my eldest sons time at the school but the school does seem to currently have a high percentage of inexperienced staff which I would imagine does not help the situation. I have discussed this issue with several woried parents and know I am not alone in considering taking my children out of the school.
Pete, Surbiton says...
10:07pm Mon 14 Jul 08
Something doesn't seem right about all this. The buck is flying around, yet no-one seems to want to take responsibility for this mysterious problem, whatever it might happen to be.
Obviously the children in question can't be identified; that would be a breach of confidentiality (and besides I'm not interested in knowing who they are anyway).
But the question is, do teachers, staff, pupils - or parents, for that matter - genuinely feel that their safety is under threat when they enter the school?
Chris John's suggestion that LB Sutton wants to protect their staff from criticism sounds plausible, on the surface of it. But I think most people are more concerned with physical danger than criticism. The idea that anyone is more interested in being uncriticised than in actually being safe strikes me as far-fetched.
The fact that people seem to have time to indulge in mud-slinging suggests to me that the problems can't be all that bad. But hey, I could be wrong.
Obviously the children in question can't be identified; that would be a breach of confidentiality (and besides I'm not interested in knowing who they are anyway).
But the question is, do teachers, staff, pupils - or parents, for that matter - genuinely feel that their safety is under threat when they enter the school?
Chris John's suggestion that LB Sutton wants to protect their staff from criticism sounds plausible, on the surface of it. But I think most people are more concerned with physical danger than criticism. The idea that anyone is more interested in being uncriticised than in actually being safe strikes me as far-fetched.
The fact that people seem to have time to indulge in mud-slinging suggests to me that the problems can't be all that bad. But hey, I could be wrong.
anon, WP says...
10:11pm Mon 14 Jul 08
Carol wrote:One Deputy was promoted to be head of another school, and the other had a change of career. please get your facts right before you sling mud
I recall two of the schools deputies leaving recently too.
anon, WP says...
10:20pm Mon 14 Jul 08
This has become silly. Unfortunately due to the way this was reported the general populous only have one side of the story.
As we all know there are three sides to every story; The school's, Mr John's and then theres the Truth.
I urge the LEA and the school to resolve this issue as soon as possible so clear up any ambiguity. If there are legitimate reasons for Mr John's suspension these should be investigated and concluded as rapidly as possible before the rumour mill takes over and this issue becomes something that it's not.
It is also our responsibility as parents to wait until all the facts have been presented before we make any hasty decisions.
As we all know there are three sides to every story; The school's, Mr John's and then theres the Truth.
I urge the LEA and the school to resolve this issue as soon as possible so clear up any ambiguity. If there are legitimate reasons for Mr John's suspension these should be investigated and concluded as rapidly as possible before the rumour mill takes over and this issue becomes something that it's not.
It is also our responsibility as parents to wait until all the facts have been presented before we make any hasty decisions.
Carol, 917-077 says...
10:23pm Mon 14 Jul 08
Fact - one of the above deputies left Dorchester to become a DEPUTY HEAD (a sideways move) and has been appointed head from September 2008 when she left in !!July 2007
anon, sutton says...
10:27pm Mon 14 Jul 08
Mr John is doing what any good govenor should do in high lighting problems that are not being resolved at school level.
For this he is being victimised, would he have been banned if he hadn't chosen to bring this to light? Are the allegations about him true or just a smoke screen.
I know for a fact his allegations are true the behaviour and language of some children at Dorchester would not be tolerated in prisons so why should staff have to put up with it. Classroom assistants have to deal with these problem children while teachers have to teach the children who behave. Without classroom assistants classes would be disrupted but i'm sure taking abuse and violence isnt in their job discription as one of their duties.
For this he is being victimised, would he have been banned if he hadn't chosen to bring this to light? Are the allegations about him true or just a smoke screen.
I know for a fact his allegations are true the behaviour and language of some children at Dorchester would not be tolerated in prisons so why should staff have to put up with it. Classroom assistants have to deal with these problem children while teachers have to teach the children who behave. Without classroom assistants classes would be disrupted but i'm sure taking abuse and violence isnt in their job discription as one of their duties.
Anon, N Cheam says...
11:40pm Mon 14 Jul 08
I agree that some of the behaviour I have been informed of would not be acceptable in a prison and I am concerned that if nothing is done Dorchester will soon have more than 5 unruly pupils!
What about the average child who wants to learn, are they being rewarded for their positive behaviour or are they just left to get on with it?
The classroom assistants appear to be dealing with a lot more than just assisting the teachers and valuable time is surely being taken away from children who deserve support, which is after all why they are there.
We can all say that if you are worried about the schools reputation move, but that is easier said than done especially if you have more than one child. Also with the amount of houses being built in the area it will soon be as difficult as getting a secondary school place!
Mr John hasnt gone about this issue in the best way as unfortunately he's reputation is now at stake, but I do believe he has the childrens best interest at heart. It isnt so much the teaching standards which are being questioned (why else would he still have a child there), but the behaviour.
This matter needs to be sorted before it gets completely out of hand.
What about the average child who wants to learn, are they being rewarded for their positive behaviour or are they just left to get on with it?
The classroom assistants appear to be dealing with a lot more than just assisting the teachers and valuable time is surely being taken away from children who deserve support, which is after all why they are there.
We can all say that if you are worried about the schools reputation move, but that is easier said than done especially if you have more than one child. Also with the amount of houses being built in the area it will soon be as difficult as getting a secondary school place!
Mr John hasnt gone about this issue in the best way as unfortunately he's reputation is now at stake, but I do believe he has the childrens best interest at heart. It isnt so much the teaching standards which are being questioned (why else would he still have a child there), but the behaviour.
This matter needs to be sorted before it gets completely out of hand.
Chris John, London says...
12:16am Tue 15 Jul 08
The solution to this problem is simple; The LEA should apologise to me for the shameful way they have treated me and then work with the school to improve all the issues I identified as Chair of Governors. In fact, I'd be happy to forego the apology if they I actually took my concerns seriously.
Another Anon, WP says...
8:56am Tue 15 Jul 08
anon wrote:What any good governor would do is work with the LB to resolve such issues.
Mr John is doing what any good govenor should do in high lighting problems that are not being resolved at school level. For this he is being victimised, would he have been banned if he hadn't chosen to bring this to light? Are the allegations about him true or just a smoke screen. I know for a fact his allegations are true the behaviour and language of some children at Dorchester would not be tolerated in prisons so why should staff have to put up with it. Classroom assistants have to deal with these problem children while teachers have to teach the children who behave. Without classroom assistants classes would be disrupted but i'm sure taking abuse and violence isnt in their job discription as one of their duties.
I do not see how dragging the school, and also some employees of the school, through the press and tarnishing an improving reputation with "their" side of the story does this, i do not see.
All this article has succeeded in doing is worrying parents and children with half facts.
The kids at Dorchester are now concerned that they might be "one of the 5" and are fearing the backlash on them. How does this help?
I understand Mr Johns has some gripes with the LB or the school, but in a position that he held, i feel he has abused his role by going to the newspaper on this.
Mr Johns, could i request 2 comparisons from you, firstly with other schools in the area. 5 incidents in however many years amoungst however many children?! and also, a comparison in the schools records between now and say 3 years ago. It would seem some of your facts are quite historic and begs the question why you feel the need to drag up old news, when the school is clearly on the up....
Dorchester Mum, Surrey says...
9:29am Tue 15 Jul 08
My suggestion would be for the Guardian to pull this story from their web-page. Its causing too much upset.
Of course Mr Johns has a right to have his viewed aired, but the school and the children have rights as well. I dont see how endless slanging matches over the internet are helping, this isnt highlighting any issue other than this is not being dealt with in a professional manner.
All Mr John's has done is held everyone to ransom, including the children he claims to care so much about and start a witch-hunt.
Of course Mr Johns has a right to have his viewed aired, but the school and the children have rights as well. I dont see how endless slanging matches over the internet are helping, this isnt highlighting any issue other than this is not being dealt with in a professional manner.
All Mr John's has done is held everyone to ransom, including the children he claims to care so much about and start a witch-hunt.
Chris John, London says...
9:45am Tue 15 Jul 08
I have not abused any position. The Governing Body, LEA and HT were not prepared to listen to my concerns and act on them. I have a document from LB Sutton Inclusion Service dated June 2008 identifying areas for review at the school and this information was to be presented to the Governors but I was prevented from doing so by the sudden appearance of a spurious complaint against me. This review would have provided the school with help and advice to manage behaviour much more effectively. And it is not about how many incidents there are or the number of children causing those incidents BUT it is about the effect those incidents have on the rest of our children. They have the right to a good education too. Everyone seems to have forgotten this. As for suggesting my facts are historic, well all I can say is there was another incident of violence on 9th June during my 'final days' as Chair of Governors. As for the school being 'on the up'....some things have improved but some things have not.I finally ask an open question "Do readers agree that it is right for disruptive child's parent to be asked to keep their child out of school for reasons of sickness during an OFSTED inspection?" I have evidence of this and that is not 'Behaviour Management' in any sense of the word. When professionals are entrusted with our children's education and welfare they should do it correctly and if they are struggling to cope than help is available. Unfortunately if the individual tasked with asking for help does not feel able to ask or they dont want to admit that they need help then the children suffer.
Dorchester Mum, Surrey says...
10:07am Tue 15 Jul 08
My point Mr John's, is that this is not the right forum for this. I agree with many of your points, I just dont agree that going to the newspaper is the way forward.
My son has needed help for his behaviour in school. For the last few years I had asked for help and had been ignored. Until the new Head came along, then I was listened to and some efforts made. And now my son has settled and is working well and not causing anyone any issues. He was never a bad child, he needed some HELP.
WHich is my point, how is this very public, very one-sided account HELPING???
I completely agree that every child has the right to a good, safe education. I also believe that ALL children need a level of commitment from the schools/parents etc. ANd I firmly believe that Dorchester has one or two pupils that need specialist help that maybe Dorchester cant provide. I'm with you on a lot of your points. But my child has been in the school for 7 years, and as a parent, I truly feel that the behaviour there is changing, for the better.
This just isnt the way, your valid points are being lost in the turmoil that this is causing. And both my children came home yesterday speculating and throwing names around as to who the "5 monster children" are.
That is completely unacceptable. How is that going to help a child already struggling ? Dorchester is a close-knit school where most people know each other and regardless of names being given, this is just serving to identify and make examples of the children cuasing some issues. This is a matter to be dealt with in private, between the school, their parents and the Local Authorities that need to step up to the plate and see these kids as individuals, not rate their issues purely by the use of a scorecard.
My son has needed help for his behaviour in school. For the last few years I had asked for help and had been ignored. Until the new Head came along, then I was listened to and some efforts made. And now my son has settled and is working well and not causing anyone any issues. He was never a bad child, he needed some HELP.
WHich is my point, how is this very public, very one-sided account HELPING???
I completely agree that every child has the right to a good, safe education. I also believe that ALL children need a level of commitment from the schools/parents etc. ANd I firmly believe that Dorchester has one or two pupils that need specialist help that maybe Dorchester cant provide. I'm with you on a lot of your points. But my child has been in the school for 7 years, and as a parent, I truly feel that the behaviour there is changing, for the better.
This just isnt the way, your valid points are being lost in the turmoil that this is causing. And both my children came home yesterday speculating and throwing names around as to who the "5 monster children" are.
That is completely unacceptable. How is that going to help a child already struggling ? Dorchester is a close-knit school where most people know each other and regardless of names being given, this is just serving to identify and make examples of the children cuasing some issues. This is a matter to be dealt with in private, between the school, their parents and the Local Authorities that need to step up to the plate and see these kids as individuals, not rate their issues purely by the use of a scorecard.
Mr Chris John, London says...
10:40am Tue 15 Jul 08
When the GB,HT and LB Sutton produce an acceptable plan to tackle the issues that I have identified in the school then this debate will end. Please tell me what forum is available to me when the Governing Body, HT and LB Sutton choose not to listen?
When you have dealt with a member of staff who has broken down in tears trying to help the children and when you have witnessed children being allowed to wander the school aimlessly because the 'system' has given up on them then you can chastise me. Going to the newspapers was a last resort but the issues had been going on for months before. I would not simply stand by and watch any more. LB Sutton and the Governing Body should be focusing on how the school is managed and not trying to turn this around on me. I have the evidence; what am I supposed to do, shred it?
When you have dealt with a member of staff who has broken down in tears trying to help the children and when you have witnessed children being allowed to wander the school aimlessly because the 'system' has given up on them then you can chastise me. Going to the newspapers was a last resort but the issues had been going on for months before. I would not simply stand by and watch any more. LB Sutton and the Governing Body should be focusing on how the school is managed and not trying to turn this around on me. I have the evidence; what am I supposed to do, shred it?
anon, says...
10:45am Tue 15 Jul 08
I thought the reason parents are governers is because they have the childrens best interests at heart as oppossed to employees of LBS who have targets etc.
Staff are not at fault management are in charge of discipline.
The teachers and ta's are doing a good job. Dorchester is a good school. Its the teachers and ta's that suffer rather than other pupils therefore management need to look at how they deal with problems.If stricter discipline was used this wouldn't be an issue.
This would be a completely different story if someone got badly injured and it wasn't reported. Mr John is in a no win situation he's doing what i understand to be his job.
Going to the paper might not be the right way to deal with it but we don't know what led to him doing this or how he'd tried to resolve it before he went to the paper.
Staff are not at fault management are in charge of discipline.
The teachers and ta's are doing a good job. Dorchester is a good school. Its the teachers and ta's that suffer rather than other pupils therefore management need to look at how they deal with problems.If stricter discipline was used this wouldn't be an issue.
This would be a completely different story if someone got badly injured and it wasn't reported. Mr John is in a no win situation he's doing what i understand to be his job.
Going to the paper might not be the right way to deal with it but we don't know what led to him doing this or how he'd tried to resolve it before he went to the paper.
anon, says...
10:46am Tue 15 Jul 08
I thought the reason parents are governers is because they have the childrens best interests at heart as oppossed to employees of LBS who have targets etc.
Staff are not at fault management are in charge of discipline.
The teachers and ta's are doing a good job. Dorchester is a good school. Its the teachers and ta's that suffer rather than other pupils therefore management need to look at how they deal with problems.If stricter discipline was used this wouldn't be an issue.
This would be a completely different story if someone got badly injured and it wasn't reported. Mr John is in a no win situation he's doing what i understand to be his job.
Going to the paper might not be the right way to deal with it but we don't know what led to him doing this or how he'd tried to resolve it before he went to the paper.
Staff are not at fault management are in charge of discipline.
The teachers and ta's are doing a good job. Dorchester is a good school. Its the teachers and ta's that suffer rather than other pupils therefore management need to look at how they deal with problems.If stricter discipline was used this wouldn't be an issue.
This would be a completely different story if someone got badly injured and it wasn't reported. Mr John is in a no win situation he's doing what i understand to be his job.
Going to the paper might not be the right way to deal with it but we don't know what led to him doing this or how he'd tried to resolve it before he went to the paper.
Anon, Stonecot Hill says...
10:56am Tue 15 Jul 08
My child starts Dorchester this September and I am now at a loss as to what to do! Have I chosen the wrong school for my child? I'm sure all schools have their problems and problem students but why has this school made front page news as opposed to any other Sutton School? I am now thinking about keeping my child back a year and applying for another school? Is rational? What do you the parents advice me to do? Is this a good, safe school or should I jump ship now while I can?
Dorchester Mum, Surrey says...
10:58am Tue 15 Jul 08
Mr John's, we could debate this forever.
I understand your concerns, I've had concerns of my own but have always raised them and thankfully, they've been dealt with. But I still stand by my belief that Dorchester, whilst it clearly has some failings, is a good school where my children have been very happy and progressed very well.
I guess on this one we'll have to agree to disagree. But I hope that the issues you have raised are dealt with and that you get the outcome you are looking for with all concerned.
I understand your concerns, I've had concerns of my own but have always raised them and thankfully, they've been dealt with. But I still stand by my belief that Dorchester, whilst it clearly has some failings, is a good school where my children have been very happy and progressed very well.
I guess on this one we'll have to agree to disagree. But I hope that the issues you have raised are dealt with and that you get the outcome you are looking for with all concerned.
Sheila take a bow, Sutton says...
10:25am Fri 11 Jul 08
why do parents put up with this? why arnt they all down at the school protesting, forcing the school to publicly investigate?
If you play dead, they will treat you as dead!